Pacemaker is Paradigm shifting?

pacemaker_sonar_june_2007_07

I was explaining to someone over twitter about the Pacemaker device since I was using it at the Future Media North Christmas Party. They were interested in buying some dj kit and was seeking advice from myself and Simon Lumb.

I know the pacemaker device (as its now called) isn’t coming back because frankly there wasn’t enough demand but that shouldn’t affect how ground breaking of a device it was/is. I would go almost as far as to say it was a paradigm shift in djing and mixing. No other device before it had attempted to cater for a niche like djs before and with something so bold.

I was thinking about this when my sister laid claim to my all but dormant BlackBerry Playbook which the pacemaker guys got me. Even the pacemaker guys will be first to admit the tablet isn’t a great platform for djing. Maybe I could push them to say the original vision was compromised when moving to the tablet, but its a compromise which has kept them in the game.

pacemaker_sonar_june_2007_06

The Pacemaker device was mind blowing, I would suggest almost paradigm shifting.

Everything up to that moment was aping vinyl and then some guys came along and built something which was so radical I can only suggest it was like a paradigm shift in djing. There hasn’t been such a major shift in the way you dj since direct drive turntables.
Not only that the mission was always the democratisation of djing, such a fine and impressive goal.

Of course thats my view, many would disagree? One of the best quotes I heard before I ordered my own over 5 years ago.

I wanted a PlayStation Portable for music” – Jonas Norberg

The Pacemaker in use

Never forgotten and I still use my every few weeks, in fact because of it I now buy more music legally than I had before (at least till when I was buying vinyl). What I’m wondering is if this might be a good time to do some crowd funding? A kickstarter would be easy for these guys because they have a good track record and certainly know what there doing to a certain point. I don’t know if I would pay through the nose again for a pacemaker but I’m seriously thinking about buying another one on ebay just in-case my one goes wrong in some way.

Where is spotify for dj mixes?

I see Spotify is  updating its linux users with new features first… But I still wonder where and if there is interest in a spotify for dj mixes?

A while ago I wrote about the differences for soundcloud vs mixcloud then went on to write about mixcloud. I highlighted these as problems with mixcloud…

  • The ability to license content including creative commons
  • Allow people to download the mixes if the dj allows it, like soundcloud do
  • Allow alternative versions of the same mix (this could be a nice pro feature, pro users get access to the transcoder)
  • Add the ability to comment on sections of the mix and the whole mix if they want to
  • Groups are a good idea (they work well on flickr and soundcloud)
  • Spend a little more time on the design of the site if possible

The download one was always a problem. Something which strikes at the heart of mixcloud’s licensing and something spotify seemed to have solved too.

So I wonder if mixcloud will ever release a desktop client or if anyone else will jump in and do it first?

Parody videos – the start of a remix

Hugh pointed at the importance of parody videos as the start of an important conversation.

I was speaking to a group of students at Salford University earlier this month about the cultural value of parody videos. Even the terrible ones. I made the arguement that the really terrible ones may be more important than the really good ones.

Let me explain.

As I pointed out yesterday most people are waiting for permission to make their moves. As social creatures we take our cues from those around us. We are a nation that needs nudging. We like to copy. Mark Earl talks about this in his book ‘I’ll Have What She’s Having‘.

I explained to the students that for every terrible parody video on Youtube there will be hundreds of super talented viewers saying to themselves “I can do better than that”. The terrible parody video is what it took to kickstart their creative career.

He’s right…

Growing up in cultural revolution of Acid, House and Rave. Not only were these forms of music demonised by the mainstream (can never forgive BBC Radio 1 for not playing Rave music). They claimed there was no talent involved and it was simply pressing buttons.

This may have been true in some cases but frankly it inspired a whole generation of other people to give it a try and write their own tunes. Some of them were successful and others just had fun.

So no matter how much I hate the gangnam style stupid dance. Hopefully it will encourage others to do there own thing instead of just jumping on the bandwagon.

The remix is one of the most important trends we have and it does fit with hugh’s people are waiting for permission too.

The Geometry set part 2

The geometry set part2 by Cubicgarden on Mixcloud

  1. Unexpectation (Dengavs manus Mix) – Vengeance
  2. Solve the Cube (Sean Truby remix) – Elucidate
  3. Strange Bends (Kyau Vs Albert) – Sebastian Sand
  4. Intruder – Armin Vs MIKE
  5. Perfect Wave – peter martin pres anthanasia
  6. Ecstasy – Eddie Makabi feat Einat
  7. Seven Cities (V-one’s living cities remix) – Solar Stone
  8. The string that binds us – Arnej
  9. Square one – Pulser
  10. Ultra Curve – Cosmic Gate
  11. Wonder of Life (F&W remix) – Tukan Light
  12. Circles – Robert Nickson
  13. Halo (Jorn Van Deynhoven mix) – Jorn Van Deynhoven & Temple One

Concept is simple, take a selection of tunes which are something to do with geometry in some way, then bust out a mix. If you think you can work out the link with geometry for each tune, feel free to comment below. Oh and part 1 is here.

Hope you enjoy…

Startup your night in the best possible way

Startup bar AB Remix

Were at it again… The startup bar is back in full force.

This time we have 4 djs, starting up at 9pm and finishing at 2am. This Friday (22nd June) and every Friday (except maybe next week, 29th July TBC).

If your in Manchester and out on Friday night, you can’t do much better than experience the House, Electro and Trance played by some great up-shots in the Manchester scene… Feel free to RSVP here.

Hope to see you all there…

An appetite for disruption mix

Its been a long time since I have done a mix and recorded it mainly because my pacemaker no longer reliably records mixes any more. However I can record mixes the old way using my laptop and the analogue interface.

I also switched from soundcloud to mixcloud, which unforgivable doesn’t have the option to download the actual mix like soundcloud use to. But I expect I’ll upload it somewhere else in the near future for those who want it on there portable music player.

So here’s the first effort… I bring you my appetite for disruption mix.

The wrong end of irlam walkabout mix

The wrong end of irlam walkabout mix by cubicgarden

Another mix by myself (Dj Cubicgarden). This time its the wrong end of irlam walkabout mix. As you can imagine I did this while walking around Irlam (yes its a real place, near Manchester) and I kind of got a little lost. It was certainly the wrong end of Irlam, as the kiddies started gathering wondering why I was there, and what this weird thing I was clutching was (the pacemaker). Anyway, I made it out of irlam safely but unfortunately without my scooter, which also now needs a new battery.

The mix is far from perfect but its an enjoyable mix of trance. There’s a lot of new stuff mixed in with some old favorites. The problem with walking around doing a mix is you can’t see the screen very well when selecting tunes and things like buying a ticket or showing the inspector your ticket can really put you off the pace of a mix.

Anyway, hope you all enjoy it, here’s the playlist…

  1. Collider – Thomas Bronzwaer
  2. Man on the Run – Dash Berlin with Cerf, Mitlska
  3. Perfect Wave – Peter Martin pres Anthanasia
  4. Ninety – Sander van Doorn
  5. Jelly Tracks (rippin & drippin mix) – Oliver Klein
  6. Roundabout – Sam Sharp
  7. Breathing (push vocal mix) – Rank 1
  8. Off the world (large remix) – Martin Roth and Alex Bartlett
  9. Passionate (fire & ice remix) – Leon
  10. Intution (martin roth remix) – Marninx pres ecco
  11. Into the danger (M.I.K.E remix) – M.I.K.E vs Andrew Bennett
  12. Listening – Aly & Fila feat Josie
  13. Severn Cities (V-One Living Cities remix) – Solar Stone
  14. RAMsterdam (jornvan deynhoven remix) – RAM

Selling old Rave stuff

Dreamscape 1 flyer

Over the Easter weekend I have been cleaning out all the old crap I own and found not only my vinyl collection (mainly hardcore/rave and happy hardcore) but also my magazine collection. I have a load of the home computer course magazines and early T3’s but more interestingly I have Eternity which is not the monthly conservative Christian magazine according to Wikipedia. Nope its the controversial underground dance magazine and I seem to have issue 4 onwards till the last one. Currently Fantazia.org.uk are selling them at between 9.99 and 14.99 a issue which is a markup of at least 500 percent, and they seem interested in buying more. Which is good, because I could shift my lot and it will go back into the hands of someone who will enjoy them.

I also have a ton of Rave flyers in a briefcase (heaven knows why). I was able to remember the combination even after so many years and so now have access to about 250+ flyers. Once again Fantazia seem to want to buy them, but I also noticed Fantazia don’t just sell them, they can put them on Canvas and ship it to you if you like. So I’ve been thinking it would be great to get some of the really good flyers up such as the Obsession fish flyer. Like the magazines, I’d be happy to help out on any project which puts all the flyers online including Fantazia, raveflyers, its-all-about-flyers, phatmedia and hyperreal.

There is so much that happened during this short period of rave culture. The history of house music timeline is worth reading if your not aware of the differences and don’t know where house music came from. Its also quite interesting to super impose the timeline of house music on top of the history of rave timeline. There are some classic bits that even I remember reading or hearing about….

1988

At a time when football violence was escalating, rival fans dance together in an ecstasy induced euphoria thinking the world is going to change. – “…like angels from above, come down and spread their wings like doves…”

Paul Stone & Lu Vukovic start RiP. They provide a harder edged party. Located in a labyrinth like warehouse complex on Clink Street, near London Bridge, home centuries ago to Britain’s first prison. RiP sees Mr C (Later of the Shamen – who played their first experimental acid set at RiP) and Eddie Richards & Kid Batchelor play a harder more underground house (“as opposed to the pop songs at Shoom” – Mr C) to a very diverse crowd, from gangsters to people in shell suits.

In Manchester the Hacienda’s Hot & Nude nights kick start acid house in the North.
April – RiP (still at Clink) move to Fridays with their ‘A-Transmission’ nights and Sundays with ‘Zoo’.

April 11th – Paul Oakenfold opens Spectrum in London. A brave move, in that it is to be held at Heaven, near Trafalgar Square (at the time one of the biggest club venues in London). To make matters worse it is held on Monday nights. Even so after 3 weeks they had 1200 people in every week with just as many locked out. Spectrum quickly gains a musical reputation as anything goes. Paul Oakenfold even plunges the complete club into total darkness and played Tchaikovsky’s 1824 Overture on one occasion. They also hold a few nights at Legends in Manchester and one party in a marquee by the Thames.

1989

The location of these events was a closely guarded secret up until an hour or so before the start. Meeting points would be made available through flyers and pirate radio stations (Sunrise, Centre Force, Fantasy). Mobile phones were still widely regarded as Yuppy toys but thanks to BT’s messaging service they became an ideal way to co-ordinate people to different meeting points (Motorway service stations usually) and eventually the venue itself. It generally turned into a game of “follow the car in front” until you find a party. By keeping the venue secret like this they could get everyone on the move heading for the party or in the wrong direction if needed. The police have no option but to follow. So the end effect is that 1000’s of people can descend on one location in a matter of minutes. Once a party’s goes past a certain size there is, in reality very little the police can do.

June 24th – Sunrise’s Midsummer Nights Dream at White Waltham airstrip, Berkshire is attended by over 11000 people. The Sun newspaper runs the headline “Ecstacy Airport”. Other reports involve “youngsters so drugged up they ripped the heads of pigeons!” & “at the end of the night the floor was covered in empty ecstacy wrappers”, unsurprisingly , both are untrue, the empty wrappers are actually pieces of silver foil that fell from the ceiling – dead pigeons nowhere to be seen.

1990

10th August – “It’s a fad. It will be over in 3 months” claims Superintendent Mick Bromwich of the Coventry police.

Alex  paterson (later of the ORB) and Jimmy Cauty (KLF) take over DJing in the VIP room at Land of Oz (held at Heaven in London). They play a weird mix of film music and animal noises! Ambient music is born.

October 13th – The Legendary Eclipse opens at Lower Ford Street, Coventry. Britains first legal all night rave club. The club is packed all night every Friday & Saturday.

September 1st – Pirate radio station Kiss becomes Britain’s first legal dance radio station.

1991

January 30th – Hacienda closes after door staff are threatened with a gun. “We are sick of the violence” – Tony Wilson

New Years Eve – 12,000 at Fantazia at Westpoint Exhibition Centre ending with the now legendary Top Buzz set &  Raindance-Big Bad Head at Melton Mowbury.

1992

April 10th – ITV’s Hitman & Her program do a show from the Eclipse in Coventry. A classic TV moment see’s Michaela Stachen having to leave the club because “its too hot … they’ve all got eyes like saucers … “. – I have this somewhere!

June 27th – Amnesia House hold “The B
ook of Love” at Brayfield Stadium. After first announcing hit intention to get married at a rave on the BBC’s “The Time, The Place” back in 1989. Mickey Lynas (partner in Amnesia/Nemesis) gets his wish and marries with 15000 ravers as witness’ and Grooverider as the best man.

July 25th – Fantazia hold “One Step Beyond/Castle Donnington”. Licensed for 25000, the totally outdoor stage is made to look like a castle with a huge dragon in the middle of the crowd.

1993

April 30th – Universe do the first Tribal Gathering with 25,000 people at Warminster near Bath. Total chaos on the surrounding roads with a 15 mile traffic jam leading up to the site at about 9pm.

August 13th – Universe stage their Big Love event attracting 30000. With 2 totally outdoor stages set back to back, Heaven (House) & Earth (Hardcore). Probably the last totally outdoor event. Sound restriction problems cause the levels to be turned right down half way through the Prodigy’s set.

The Criminal Justice bill is put to parliament. With the new rave clause, defining a ‘Rave’ as 100 or more people dancing outdoors to music “mainly comprising of repetitive beats”. New powers for the police will include the right to detain anyone they believe is heading to an illegal rave and the right to confiscate sounds systems (like they hadn’t been doing this anyway)

Pacemaker + Sonodrome devices better explained

how pacemaker and sonodrome device can work

I thought I was pretty straight forward with my thoughts about using sonodrome devices with the pacemaker but some people did ask for a clearer description, the picture above this should be all you need.

So instead of plugging the Pacemaker straight into a amp, you plug the line out into the input of a your Sonodrome box. The Sonodrome box can be anything you want to build, I really want to build a Flanger Effect box on my first go, something I love playing with when djing but is sadly lacking from the pacemaker right now. Once you attach the output of the Sonodrome box to the Amp your away pretty much. I know you can buy effect peddles which do the same thing but there usually so heavy, made for bands, use external power and look like crap. What I would build would be unfussy, simple and small enough to throw in the bag alongside the pacemaker for live events.

A couple words of warning however.

The Sonodrome box, needs to deliver totally clean sound when not in use, because un/plugging it mid set would be a nightmare. So no amplification at 0 I guess. The Box should aid that feeling of movement, so big fat buttons and the like. They also need to be pretty solid when mounted, as there expected to get quite a lot of abuse.

There’s also some advantages to this type of setup, like taking a 3.5inch stereo jack on the input but having a selectable 5.5inch jack or even a XLR on the output. The projects seem pretty straight easy to follow. The one idea which really interests me a lot is the wiimote one. With bluetooth and a few selectable effects it should be straight forward to farm all the changes to the accelerometers on a wiimote instead. Although I can kind of imagine how it would work, I have no idea how much work it would take, maybe I’d be better asking someone to build it for me and paying them instead. Any takers?

Here comes the sunshine mix

Here comes the sunshine mix by cubicgarden

Its been a long time since I’ve done a mix worthy of publishing, don’t get me wrong I’ve been playing with the pacemaker quite a bit but they have been quite short and of varity of quality. So this is the big one, almost 2 hours of pure trance, just in time for Spring and the sunshine. Playlist to follow….

  1. Lift – Sean Tyas
  2. Key of Life (Marlo remix) – Ohmna Featuring Nurlaila
  3. The Legacy (alphazone mix) – Saltwater
  4. Constellation (john o’callaghan remix) – Thomas Bronzwaer
  5. The Labyrinth (part one) – Moogwai
  6. Maybe next time – Robert Nickson
  7. The Legacy (club mix) – Push
  8. Certitude – Thomas Bronzwaer
  9. Rewire – Robert Nickson & Daniel Kandi
  10. RAMsterdam (Jornvan Deynhoven Remix) – RAM
  11. Intuition (Martin Roth Remix) – Marninx Pres Ecco
  12. 1999 (Gouryella mix) – Binary Finary
  13. Off the World (Large Remix) – Martin Roth and Alex Bartlett
  14. What it feel like for a girl (Dj Duane Thamms extended dance video remix) – Madonna
  15. Invisible Touch (Ferry Corsten’s Touch) – Bobina
  16. Save Me – Airwave
  17. Beautiful Thing (Photon project remix) – Andain
  18. Shadow World – Thomas Bronzwaer
  19. Blinding Truth – Elevation
  20. Out of the Blue 2010 – System F
  21. Barber Adagio for Strings (Ferry Corsten mix) – William Orbit

Next Generation DJ contest qualifiers scrutinized

The sound of snow falling in sunshine mix from cubicgarden at Letsmix.com.

The whole thing is a joke I would say, I had pretty much given up to tell the truth. The NGDJ (next generation dj contest) has published a warning that all qualifiers to the contest will be scrutinized.

A quick note regarding the NGDJ Qualifiers: Leading up to the end of NGDJ Stage 1, we will be investigating all Qualifier mixes. Voting patterns related to accounts or mixes which are in breach of the NGDJ Terms and Conditions may lead to any of the following:

– Votes being retracted
– Mixes being denoted from Qualifier status
– The banning of Letsmix.com accounts

In addition to this we would like to inform you that this procedure might also affect mix rating averages and vote totals. All decisions and results following this investigation are final.

Voting issues, why? This is part of the problem,

For the stage 1

The NGDJ eligibility period will begin December 15th 2009 and will end on January 31st 2010, after which Stage 1 (“NGDJ Qualifiers Eligibility Period”) ends. To register and compete in NGDJ, visit http://www.letsmix.com and fully complete all required fields on the online registration form, and proceed to upload your DJ mix. Spread your NGDJ submission widely; you must gain a minimum of 200 ratings to be deemed a qualifier. The top one hundred qualifiers will then be determined by their average mix rating to remain in contest as Stage 2 commences.

Basically if you browse around the current qualifiers for the contest, you will find many examples of mixes which have something like 206 votes but only 60 actual listens. Go figure, obviously something is going on. What bugs me is that the legitimate mixes like mine (80 listens and 62 votes of a average of 4.8 out of 5) are going to lose out simply because I didn’t cheat like everyone else.

This comment sums up my thoughts too

I don’t know why you didn’t make another voting procedure. My idea:
1. The vote button to be enabled only after the mix was listened at least 30 min
2. The rate of the mix to be shown only after the vote was placed.
3. The competitors shouldn’t be able to vote other mixes. The actual situation is not very good cause some of the “djs” here are not acquainted with the term FAIR PLAY and are not open minded.
4. The owner of the mix should be able to see a review of the votes he received on each day (how much stars has each vote).

So before the end of the month, if you’ve not voted for my mix, please do.

E4: Every Extend Extra Extreme

Every Extend Extra Extreme is one of the games I’ve been totally been going crazy for recently. I tried the demo on Xbox Live Arcade and was instantly hooked. Explaining how it works is quite tricky… Wikipedia to the rescue

the player controls a ship which they can detonate at any time. This causes any enemies within a certain radius to explode, which in turn cause other enemies to explode in a chain reaction. As the game continues more and more enemies populate the screen allowing longer and higher scoring explosions. The player may halt the chain at any time to pick up power-ups (such as to increase enemy speed, add time, add temporary shield) or to start a new chain reaction.

The explosions add a percussive beat to the background music.

The player’s ship is destroyed when coming into contact with or being shot by an enemy while the player’s shields are down. This resets the level to its initial slow pace and bonus multiplier, therefore hindering the player’s scoring.

The one thing it doesn’t say is depending how your timing is with the beat, you get a small to large explosion radius. So bang on and you get something which can start a massive chain reaction while off beat and you only take out a few enemies.

Its pretty and glorious on a HDTV running at 60fps and fans of REZ HD will appreciate the finishing touches which Q! entertainment bring to their games. This is certainly my new Geometry Wars

The world’s most important 6-sec drum loop

Matt showed me this earlier in the week but I had to blog it. This is a excellent example of remix culture… Imagine if Amen had claimed copyright over the break? Or if they had licensed it only to the top producers in the music industry.

This fascinating, brilliant 20-minute video narrates the history of the “Amen Break,” a six-second drum sample from the b-side of a chart-topping single from 1969. This sample was used extensively in early hiphop and sample-based music, and became the basis for drum-and-bass and jungle music — a six-second clip that spawned several entire subcultures. Nate Harrison’s 2004 video is a meditation on the ownership of culture, the nature of art and creativity, and the history of a remarkable music clip.

Pay a voluntary contribution or suffer the shame?

The Real Hustle being filmed in Brighton

So I'm really late to the whole Radiohead price experiment. Many people have said how great it is, others have said there just copying what smaller artist have been doing for years on sites like Amiestreet, some of pondered interesting questions and others have moaned about the quality. But what I found interesting was Ben Metcalfe's post which asks the question Would you pay a voluntary contribution for your BitTorrent usage?

Having pushed for so long for digital distribution methods that afford us our full rights under copyright (ie no DRM), it’s kinda time that we step up to the plate and prove that today’s digital media consumers are not looking to freeload… or are we?)

I was just chatting about this issue with a heavy BitTorrent user I know well, who’ll remain anonymous. For her, she finds BitTorrent the most convenient way to select and consume media – she watches a lot of foreign TV and also occasionally enjoys watching video on her PSP (which doesn’t support any DRM-for-video technology even if the content she wants to watch is available in a DRM’d format). Downloading torrent files from sites across the world and transcoding them into a PSP-friendly format has become a simple and painless process which she finds quicker and more convenient for her needs than any DRM system out there right now.

She is frustrated that she has to use what are currently deemed ‘illegal methods’ to obtain the media and can’t do anything to legitimize the content she is viewing.

So I know Chris Anderson is writing a new book called Free but honestly if I could pay the artist or production company for my DRM free download I would. Depending on the content I would pay between 1p – 2 pounds. 2 pounds for heroes, dexter, Dr Who, IT crowd, etc. 1 pounds for Ugly Betty, Apprentice, The Real Hustle, etc. 30p for Prison Break, Daily show, etc. I would also pay for podcasters and videocasters for their efforts if it was conveient and simple.

There was something interesting I heard at the wealth of networks conference in Boston. The Social Facebook application, called Causes. So the thinking behind the causes application is that the person can indicate what causes they support. But that application also tells people if you've donated money or helped that cause recruit new members. The idea being that if your friends have all donated loads of money over months, and you nothing. You would be shamed into taking the cause off your list. Now if you imagine something like this for TV, Music and even Film I guess? (I know Tioti is thinking about badges to indicate you like a certain show) you could have some site like last.fm or tioti/sharetv which tracks your tv/music but also shows when you donated money or helped out in someway. I guess the people who just want stuff for free will not sign up, but for the rest of us this is a way of showing your really a fan and enjoyed the show so much you paid or did something in return. This would also show the producers how popular there show/tune is and you could build grassroot graphs and charts I guess. If the real hustle series 1 rakes in a load of money and series 2 double that, you know your doing something right. If its less and less then its time to change something or give up. Its like voting for a show but the financial decision means votes are not given in vain or lightly. Hey and its helping out the people who work really hard. Just a idea, not really formed yet.

I'm not really a fan of Radiohead, but if this helps the content producers and owners into considering other business/revenue models, then put me down for 5 pounds…

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Gabriel and Dresden Featuring Molly Bancroft – Let Go

I've been listening to this tune a little too much I think. This is certainly the trance equivalent of a breaking up tune. Its very mellow and limited on vocals, but clear and effective at reminding me of current position.

 

I swear I don’t know, what time it is,
But I know this means, nothing much to me,
And I hear the voices, bring in my head,
And they keep telling, telling me to let go…
Let Go
Telling me to let go
Let go…
*It could be better that way*

Let it Go, Let it go,
*It could be better that way*
Let it Go, Let it go,
*It’s just better that way*
Let it Go, Let it go,
*It could be better that way*
Let it Go, Let it go,
It’s just better that way.

And I hear the voices, bring in my head,
And they keep telling,
Telling me to Let Go…To let go…
Telling me to Let Go…To let go…
Telling me to Let Go…To let go…
Telling me to Let Go…To let go…

*Aah a ah..let it go..*
*Aah a ah..let it go..*
*Aah a ah..let it go..*
*Aah a ah..let it go..*
*Sink me better that way.*

Let it go, Let it go
“It could be better that way”
Let it Go, Let it go
“It’s just better that way”
Let it Go, Let it go
“It could be better that way”
Let it Go, Let it go
*Sink me better that way..*
Let it Go, Let it go
*It could be better that way*
Let it Go, Let it go
*It’s just better that way*
Let it Go, Let it go
*It could be better that way*
Let it Go, Let it go
*It’s just better that way*

Scary how effective music can be sometimes…

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