Taking the redpill and washing it down with some cool-aid

Redpill

 

Myself and Elisa were on Ngunan’s upfront Radio show on Sunday. I made a clip of our discussion minus the music.

A lot was said but I found Elisa’s views looking at the manosphere quite surprising. I did hear that the 2016 documentary, Redpill is well worth watching because of Cassie’s video diaries which show the conflict she has in her own mind and believes.

So I watched it, unfortunately the day after the show, it would have been really useful to be clear when on the radio.

From the documentary;

  • Mens rights – Want to change the system
  • Men going their own way (Mgtow) – Want to leave the system
  • Redpill community – Want to take advantage of the system

Its a interesting distinction.

I do agree there are differences in the manosphere, just like there are differences in the feminist-sphere.

But through-out the documentary I could see elements of truth, some were blown up and smudged into a complete argument. This is classic misinformation technique, elements of truth are mixed in with lots of falsehoods.

A large part of the documentary is around paternity (fathers rights which was touched upon in the show) which is a big issue just like domestic violence, mental illness, self-abuse and suicide. But although its a large problem some of the theories are built and discussed with too much misinformation. It is clear that there is a lot of fighting between the different groups, even on core issues which effect both sexes like genital mutilations, cancer, etc.

But even with all that I’m still calling myself a feminist.

I wish I remembered to bring up clear cut things like gamergate.

My liberation as a man is tied to your liberation as a woman

At TEDWomen, Tony Porter makes a call to men everywhere: Don’t “act like a man.” Telling powerful stories from his own life, he shows how this mentality, drummed into so many men and boys, can lead men to disrespect, mistreat and abuse women and each other. His solution: Break free of the “man box.”

This is such a powerful and speech by Tony Porter! So powerful that I needed to watch it again straight afterwards. To be fair I first heard about it on the NPR TED hour.

So many great parts but this sums it up and is exactly why I am a feminist… and its a perfect answer of why its feminism not equalist. or whatever...

I need you working with me and me working with you on how we raise our sons and teach them to be men – that it’s OK to not be dominating – that it’s OK to have feelings and emotions – that it’s OK to promote equality – that it’s OK to have women who are just friends and that’s it – that my liberation as a man is tied to your liberation as a woman.

So profound a point and ever so elegant and simple!

I don’t quite know when it happened to me, but at a early age I could see and smell the macho hierarchy bullshit. It generally drove me a little nuts. I mean how dare people tell me I can’t have female friends who are not simply potentials. This honestly was said to me multiple times over my life. Either they are potentials or they are not worth investing time in! Seriously! This warped view for what? The dream of being alpha king kong of the jungle?

It might have been strengthen by the film 187 with Samuel L Jackson?

187 film
Your whole way of life is bullshit! Macho is bullshit!

Trevor Garfield: Your whole way of life is bullshit! Macho is bullshit!
Cesar: It’s all I got!

I could literally pull out many parts of the macho bullshit out of many pickup/selfhelp books for men. For example AMOG

AMOG
1. noun [alpha male of the group or alpha male other guy]: a  socially comfortable male who competes with a pickup artist for a woman or interferes with a pickup artist’s game.
2. verb: to remove a potential male competitor—through physical, verbal, or psychological tactics—from a group of women. Also: outalpha. Origin: Tyler Durden

Some key points of the macho bullshit…

  • Don’t cry or openly express emotions
  • Do not show weakness or fear
  • Demonstrate power control
  • Show aggression and dominance always (be the alpha)
  • Do not be “like a woman”
  • Do not be “like a gay man”
  • Make decisions, do not ask for help
  • Don’t ask questions?
  • View the oppose sex as property or objects

You can see this stuff play out in books like the game. Its something I have battled against many times, as I’ve seen too many good men around me hold themselves to similar rules, unknowingly buying into/clinging onto some type of old fashioned/myth of what makes a man?

I hate certain situations when I don’t have the energy to battle against this macho bullshit or manbox if you prefer? I feel like those Manchester couples at Salt and Paper in Eyespy, wanting to say something but not having the energy or enough fight in me to do so. I’ve taken a slightly more manipulative approach now, as that doesn’t put me directly into competition/conflict with their own view. It takes longer but I’ve seen glimmers of a break through.

Update

I had a chat over brunch in VividLounge with Chris, and he recommended via RosieDoctor nerd love. I did say it sounded like a blog I read called the rules revisited. The one which originally Valeska pointed me and I mentioned earlier  So I had a look and found on the front page a post titled How Toxic Masculinity Hurts Everyone.

Toxic masculinity is a narrow and repressive description of manhood, designating manhood as defined by violence, sex, status and aggression. It’s the cultural ideal of manliness, where strength is everything while emotions are a weakness; where sex and brutality are yardsticks by which men are measured, while supposedly “feminine” traits – which can range from emotional vulnerability to simply not being hypersexual – are the means by which your status as “man” can be taken away.

Sex, in particular, is an important part of “being a man”. Sexual conquests (and believe me, that word is chosen deliberately) are part of how men establish and reaffirm their manhood. The need to “get” sex is all-encompassing because the more of it you have, the higher “status” you have as a man.

I was actually going to post about the horrible rapist who got off (words used deliberatly) extrememly lightly mainly because of some messed up privilage. I watched the video of the news reader reading out the letter from the victim. I simply couldn’t help but shed some tears for such a tragic and nasty thing to happen to somebody/anybody!

But on the idea of how to stem the toxic masculinity I found this interesting when considering what I said earlier.

With all this in mind, we’re forced to ask just how we can start fixing men and repairing the damage done by toxic masculine ideals. And the answer is to speak up. The answer is to push back. The answer is to take responsibility. The answer is education.

We need more men to step up and be counted. We need more men to call out others for their shitty behavior, to refuse to let sexual assault be “get some action”, to intervene when we see harassment or assaults going down regardless of the gender of the victim.

I have been told… I need to push back more.

The twisted route down the rabbit hole

Blue pill or the red pill

Herb pointed me to a piece about Redditredpill.

The man who uses the Internet handle “Redditredpill” is having difficulty understanding women after going to a nightclub with some friends. As he tells it, “girls threw themselves at us for a sip of our vodka, to sit with us, to feel wanted.” These girls had “no intent on actually getting with [him]”:

Imagine the reverse. I tried it. A table of girls, I went over to the girls on other side of club, and said ‘Hi, can I get a sip of your champagne? Can I join you?’

What was the response? ‘F— off, go away, who are you, why should we let you sit with us?’

Said exactly the same to the [women] that came up to us […] So a group of single girls on a table allowed some [women] to sit with them, rather then an attractive male, who they didn’t know, [who] actually had a table himself […]

Point is, they tried […] and failed. And I tried to go to a group of girls and that failed too, as they thought they were superior.

This may sound like the instigatory words of someone looking for a fight, sarcasm gone too far at best. But Redditredpill shared his story in earnest with a very specific community that empathizes with his perspective.

It’s more than a perspective, in fact: It’s a philosophy.

The basis of this philosophy, which underpins almost all conversations in his community, is that females get away with things by virtue of being female.

And there is a community of men who really buy in to the ideaology, that men have had it harder that women.

Yes the same women who couldn’t vote in the last 50 years for example, yes those women.

The Red Pill is a collection of ideas encompassed by what its subscribers refer to as the “manosphere,” a number of loosely-associated blogs that focus on masculinity and personal philosophy for men. At the surface level there’s nothing terribly contentious about this, but if you click around one or two layers deeper, you’ll find plenty of examples why chatter from this gallery regularly turns heads. Like this:

“You are hating women because you have the wrong expectations for them. Don’t hate someone for something they CANNOT be. Women are, by nature, manipulative, attention-seeking, inconsistent, emotional, and hypergamous. Accept this truth. Once you do, you can game women for what they are … not what you want them to be.”

The community’s name is a tip of the hat to the truth-seeking attitude in The Matrix – Keanu Reeves pops a red pill to unplug his mind from a simulated world, freeing him to explore genuine reality.

For Red Pillers, genuine reality goes something like this: Female oppression is a myth and men are the ones holding the short end of the stick. That said, men and women are inherently different due to evolution, so each gender should carry out its designated role in society. For example, females should raise children at home and men should work and have sex with women.

Like all ideologies, there are those who stand on the sidelines and those who buy into it hook line sinker. As the blog post points out, most are just interested in getting one up on women in “the game” department.

This all really troubles me because what the red pill community have done is reduced the whole of female kind down to one stereotype. Maybe there mothers were not as kind and caring as my own but surely someone along there time on this earth was, and shock horror they were female! Its far too easy and convenient to just remember the bad experiences.

If you change women/female for black you get a different take on the whole debate.

You are hating blacks because you have the wrong expectations for them. Don’t hate someone for something they CANNOT be. Blacks are, by nature, manipulative, attention-seeking, inconsistent, emotional, and hypergamous. Accept this truth. Once you do, you can game blacks for what they are … not what you want them to be.

Ok it doesn’t quite work, but you can see it working with a few tweaks?

And I’m sure there are communities somewhere online who believe similar stuff about blacks and many other races (most noticeable are the holocaust deniers). Its far too easy to blog about how the whole community are wrong, misguided, dangerous, blah blah.

What I wonder is about the self-help nature of the community. Simon already mentioned years ago how the game is really self-help for men. Self help in the context of women?

I don’t see this as a problem, IF you don’t then turn against the thing your maybe working towards?

The problem is self confidence, fear of rejection and other deep rooted things. This raises the never-ending question of nature-versus-nurture, or genes versus environment I guess. But to be honest I wonder if most of this is a crisis of masculinity? Instead of embracing, they reject and hate because its easier to hate than embrace. Once the hate starts, everything re-enforces this (or at least it seems that way).

These guys shouldn’t be hated rather shown female kind is as wildly diverse as male kind or any ecosystem. There will be some bad eggs but you shouldn’t write off that kind…

We are all different and thats what makes us human. Embrace…