Tag: dating

Not wise to brand all pick up artists by the same brush

Keychain

As most of you know I use to have an inherent hate for pick up artists. And it wasn’t till Geeks talk sexy where my views started to become a little less harsh.  However I am seeing a conflicts in both directions.

One one side myself and female friends have noticed how bad (generally) men are about coming forward and asking women out on dates. I use to put this down to the fear of rejection but I have been told again and again…

Dude, dating is an American concept and you never really going on dates. In my day, we use to hangout and just end up together.

To which I usually bite my lip and hold in my inner rage.

When online dating, if I’m talking to a woman and the idea of going on a date is a big turn off then, I call them timewasters.

Some people are very comfortable with just chatting and chatting, but to be honest, although I’m cool with chatter, texting, phone calls, etc. Its got to be a face to face meet which decides things. And I know I’m not the only one who thinks this… of course timewasters can be male or female.

On the other side, they are too forward (or just want one thing) and as one friend says, their first line is one of the following…

Can I bum you? Do you like it hard? You will beg for more…

(and trust me,  this is the stuff I feel comfortable with posting, its gets a whole lot worst!) I still find it hard in which century its OK to be so direct and simply offensive. I mean its not like they are showing off to their mates, I knew very few men who share their dating chatter with friends. Its almost like they need to be the stereotype of a super alpha male to make themselves and their egos feel good? Daily Mash has a piece I found via Olivia Solon about this type of behavior.

BRITAIN’S sleazy men have confirmed that they are just performing as their amusingly ribald alter egos.

So whats the problem? Is it that men are incapable of being themselves (rather beat their chests and live in the past)? Fearing living in a world where testosterone isn’t need as much? I don’t know the answer, but there is a problem with male society. And I’m not the only one to notice this…

Its well recognised females are rightly finding themselves in a better position that ever before (and rightly so).  As I mentioned before human kind urgently needs the diversity of thought and ideas. But likewise its clear men are struggling to cope with these changes.

Whats all this got to do with pick up artists? I hear you all ask? I know Josh R would love to know…

I’m going to be clear about this… Not all pick up artists should be treated with the same brush. There are some really nasty nasty screwed up people preaching spiteful stuff and theres communities who lap it up.  But like or not (and I really don’t) some are doing encouraging self believe, being respectful and even treating people as equals. Some techniques do work on a number of people in the same way advertisers understand enough about the human brain to make you want and desire objects. Now granted they are not all really calling themselves Pick Up Artists but they are providing a similar service.

Do this and you will end better and with somebody special…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGp25fn25Cs&list=TLK2CfQBCf5ls

Tyler (Owen Cook) is a example. Between some of the interesting stuff like, “How Rising From A Prison Of Depression / Social Anxiety / Negativity Is Like Crawling From A Pit” where he actually talks about his own depression in a reasonable way and makes a really good case with the dark knight rises. Is Tyler’s secrets for picking up hot girls at crazy parties and chaotic environments.

Calling people saddos and looses isn’t going to help and to be honest its too easy to write them off like that. Once you do, its no big surprised to see how the redpill and many other female hating communities pick them up strays so easily. Its like cults who prey upon those shunned by society. You got to look deeper than that, what can we do to bring them into the light? Bit of a plug for Flirtology and the Manchester flirting weekend which helps people who may be clueless or just lacking in experience.

Some of you are saying why can’t Tyler just leave the picking up stuff and keep the self confidence stuff? I would agree but frankly men are stubborn and the idea this could lead to somewhere, is a powerful motivator. If Tyler did just videos about self help (his inner game – geez really?!), very few would watch (love for somebody to prove me wrong!) This for me has parallels to religion, is it a necessary evil… for the greater good? Who knows?

Manchester flirty weekend

Most of you know we are putting on the Manchester flirting weekend. At the moment we have lots of women signed up but far too few men. Why is this? And its not just our event, its a common problem across the sector of relationship, women sign up and men crawl through afterwards. At the very least the pick up artists are encouraging men to get out there, step up to the opportunities and not just sit back and then moan about things from the currently dominate position.

I never will really support what the pick up artists  do (although I grapple with it constructively in my head all the time) , but at the very least they are making men sit up and think about their lives and place in modern society. This is why I have been known to write posts on Single Black Male and read more enlighten people like the rules revisited.

Its time to wake up and I don’t mean in a flipping red pill nonsense way.

Get a grip and stop blaming others for you’re lack of progress. Stop comparing yourself to gender stereotypes and be honest with yourself. Sexuality is a spectrum and be comfortable with yourself before heading out to seek a partner.

Metadating in Newcastle

Couple in a coffee shop

Metadating… by Newcastle’s Culture Lab (I must declare I’m working with these guys in BBC R&D’s User eXperience Partnership, but this is nothing to do with me. I was told about it and went wow!)

Exploring the Romance of Personal Data, A singles dating event, hosted by researchers at Culture Lab

Ok you got my interest already… The Quantified Self and Dating?

We’re all creating more data about our lives, be it on social media or on our smartphones. Nowadays, people even use technology to track themselves and record how active they are, where they’ve been or how well they’ve slept. But how public should this data be? What would this look like on a dating profile? Would you like to know how late she works or whether he’s a night owl? Just how much does he workout? Where’s her favourite coffee shop?

Meta Dating is a free singles event for people interested in data and dating, hosted by researchers at Culture Lab, Newcastle University.

We’re looking for single people who have some experience of online dating to take part, meet other singles, have fun, and explore the romance of personal data!

Of  course I signed up straight away… I am a little worried about how they are going to collect all my data  but I’ll worry about that later. One of the questions asked was, why you? To which I roughly replied…

I’m a fan of the Quantified Self and use Online and Offline dating services all the time. I’m also working in the Quantified Self area in regards to the ethics of data and new storytelling experiences. I’ll be really interested to know if theres any link between the data about ourselves and data in whom we seek.

As most of you know, I tend to hold quite strong views about online dating and the process which services claim to use to match people. I pretty much damned most dating sites for doing nothing more than simply bringing people together like Facebook. Shuffled my feet at the idea of using algorithms to match people. And even made jokes about using things like smell to match people. But whats upset me the most is the lack of scientific methodology to solve the problem.

Well here’s my chance to see if there is something to it or its simply a joke like quantified toilets and premium dating. Be fascinating to see how they get over things like looks, interests and things which are just you like race, height, etc, etc… or will the results come back with something similar to the idea of the unquantifiable?

Am I sapiosexual?

At 4:35am in a trendy loft style office in Manchester’s fashionable Northern Quarter. While waiting for one of the other BarCampManchester organisers to come and take over from my late night stint keeping an eye on things. After the werewolf games are done and most people have gone home. I find some time to do some blogging.
During the welcome talk I made the point BarCamp is a place to indulge your passion and share with others. I then show a quote from Simon Pegg. Then later in the barcamp, Tim Dobson interviews me about my views on dating. He asks a question which leads me to talk  about values and breakers.
I mention intelligence but add the caveat that its not necessarily IQ but rather smart and being thoughtful about things. I was going to mention something I heard the other day which I just couldn’t remember at the time. Sapiosexual
Sapiosexual
One who finds intelligence the most sexually attractive feature.

“I want an incisive, inquisitive, insightful, irreverent mind. I want someone for whom philosophical discussion is foreplay. I want someone who sometimes makes me go ouch due to their wit and evil sense of humor. I want someone that I can reach out and touch randomly. I want someone I can cuddle with.I decided all that means that I am sapiosexual.”

I like this description and it seems to fit very well with  my geeky personality. Even reading it sends little shivers down my spine. Now thats something I certainly could subscribe to and look for…  maybe one to add to my profile? Who knows…

Blame tinder or the sick people

Killer Prom Date - Dig The Grave Black & White

Jody sent me a link on Facebook, to this horrible story of a women who was gang raped after meeting a guy on Tinder.

This is horrible and shows the sick and twisted people who hopefully nobody will ever come across. However I do find the advice the detective says a little difficult to take in one go.

Detective inspector Haddow said: ‘It’s absolutely vital that people using dating websites and apps remember that how a person portrays themselves on the internet can be very different from their real life persona.

‘With this in mind, we strongly advise people that if they decide to meet a person they have been introduced to via the internet, then ensure the meeting is in a public place and take a friend along with you.’

I have been on dates with women who have brought a friend along and its been a slightly surreal experience. Now to be fair one was sitting on the same table as us and another one in the next booth. If you are going to bring a friend, for goodness sake don’t bring them to the table!

The story is so horrible and I can’t imagine much worst but its really hard to give advice on what to do before going on a date besides the usual stuff like meet in a public place, text your friend to say you’re ok, get them to call you at a set time. Most of these things the lady in question did and she still ended up meeting these sick people.

I guess the point I’m making is, its not great to put hard rules down, they may help but its not bulletproof advice. Its a matter of judgement,  if you feel somethings not right, get up and go. Heck climb through the toilet window if you have to. But the only person who really knows what to do at the moment is yourself, which is another reason not to drink too much on dates.

Its too easy to say she should have done this, she should have done that (blaming the victim for something so horrible is also a stupid thing to do – don’t look at the comments!). Frankly love and dating are very risky, you can do much to minimise the risk but at some point you need to open yourself up or you never will know.

Online dating? Why so serious?

Why so serious?

In passing I also found the hierarchy of seriousness in the Guardian’s post, interesting following the last post

At the top is something like Guardian Soulmates or Match – the ones you pay for. At the lower end are the likes of OKCupid or PlentyOfFish (POF) which are free, more casual and less “Where do you see yourself in 10 years’ time?”

Although I do agree about the statement, I think of it as more like a spectrum. You have your Match and Guardian Soulmates on one end and your Social dating apps like Tinder at the other end. Around the middle is something like OKCupid.

The more serious end of the spectrum is full of people wanting kids and marriage quickly. Theres also a certain amount of desperation you can feel coming from that end. Its very much what people use to make jokes about when they thought of online dating.

The other end is less serious and more casual. Yes you get casual hookups that end too but also you get people who are more laid back and less pushy about being in a relationship. Right now my circumstances would favor somebody from this end.

The mistake people make, is thinking all the quality is at the non-casual end of the spectrum. I’m not economist but dating is a bit of a numbers game. I guarantee the number of people you meet at the social dating end is far greater, even if its to meet and think never again. I would also contest that you will get more tech savvy young professionals and geeks than the other end.

Who pays…? Remember It’s 2014 after all…

Dinner date - Day 122, Year 2

Rob pointed me at a piece by David Mitchell in the Guardian about who pays on the first date. He called it my favorite subject, although to be clear its not, I just find it fascinating the social, society and gender pressures at force. I’m not the only one to notice this…

Why do we cling to prehistoric dating rituals in a technological age?

The majority of us still believe that men should pay when men and women go on a first date. Is this a sexist throwback, or a necessary means of communication between the sexes?

. A survey published this month found that 77% of us think that, between a male and a female, the male should foot the bill. Of the 1,000 respondents, 73% of the women and 82% of the men said that it was for the bloke to get his card out.

What do you think about that then? Terrible? OK? Presumably about 77% of you agree that the man should pay, but then you may still think it’s terrible that you think that. Is it a harmless remnant of a more sexist age, an adorable antiquated tradition that benefits women and has survived the passing of many of those that disadvantaged them? Or is it a horrible sign of the patriarchy’s continued power? Money, the great capitalist symbol of strength, remains the territory of the penis-bearers (by which I mean possessors, not endurers).

Ok so I looked at the survey in question, what I found was slightly disappointing.

77.4% of 1,004 people surveyed across the country who are in a relationship – believe men should pay the bill on a first date. About 19% felt the bill should be split in some way. Only 3.7% said men should not pay the bill.

…study asked more than 1,000 people across the United States

Survey of 1004 people? Thats it? And its American…. In the random survey I did myself, it showed Americans tend to go with the man paying plus 1004 isn’t a lot. Moneysavingexpert did a poll a little while back and they had 13,000+ people vote.

Ok ok…! Enough… David later makes some good modern points.

Another aspect of society’s sexism is that we generally assume the man will always want to have sex with the woman. By convention, he will have asked her on the first date, and the purpose of the event is for her to see if she likes him – his approval is assumed. That’s not altogether PC. What if she turned out to be racist or talk with an interrogative inflection or constantly say “in any way, shape or form”? Is the man supposed to pay and then make himself sexually available to this harridan, purely out of gallantry?

Absolutely… Just because we’re on a date and I’m a man doesn’t instantly mean its a foregone conclusion. Trust me I’ve been on dates where the woman has wound me up so bad, I’ve just wanted to get up and leave. Certainly sleeping with them is the very last thing I’m thinking.

…we try and communicate using money. We fall back on our knowledge of ancient patriarchal conventions of what it means to pay, or be paid for, as a way of trying to send and receive signals through the fog of mutual ignorance. It’s not a good system, but it’s all we’ve got. Until we get back to our computers and can just click “like”.

I’ve heard this quite a few times in the past. The only way to tell if somebody likes you is if he (or she) pulls out his/her credit card and pays the bill. Its a clear sign of interest. In 2014, it shouldn’t be this way and I’m hoping with projects like the flirty weekend, the ability to express yourself and understand other peoples body language won’t be the complex puzzle it currently seems.

Do you really think Facebook will be around in 15 years?

me on facebook

I still have this strange relationship with Facebook. I don’t really like it but I end up using it because lots of friends are on it and for them its a core part of the Internet (rightly or wrongly). My volleyball teams also use Facebook to book sessions (yes so popular is volleyball in Manchester) and I do get comments from many more friends when I post things into  Facebook.

In the past I used Facebook as massive dumping ground and didn’t really care to login. My view that Facebook is the modern equivalent of the walled gardens of AOL. Although I still stand by this, I have also noticed my usage increasing too.

So when I read the piece titled I Left Facebook, And You Can Too. I reflected on my own increase usage.

Imagine, for a moment, that you must quit using Facebook forever, starting right now. No more posting to Facebook or checking Facebook for the rest of your life. But don’t worry, you can still e-mail all those friends. Does that make you feel panicky? If you’re panicky, it’s a clue. Maybe you’ve been on Facebook for most of your life, so this kind-of-addicted feeling seems normal to you. It’s not normal. I was talking with a woman in her 50s this weekend, who said to me, “I wish I could quit Facebook but it’s so addictive: ‘Oh, this person said this, that person said that, and oh, this person is taking boating lessons, let’s look at all the pictures of the boat,’ and then before I know it two hours have passed and I don’t even KNOW the person taking boating lessons!” This is what it feels like when your connections with a platform are being strengthened, as opposed to the connections with the people you love: you can spend two hours on Facebook looking at the boating lessons of people you don’t even know. This is very convenient for Facebook.

I barely look at the timeline/newsfeed as I’m generally just looking at the notifications. I can feel the lure of the notifications in facebook, this is why I removed Facebook from my mobile phone and only had it on my tablet (plus it was a massive battery hog). Then very recently I removed Facebook messenger from my phone too.

One of the things I have been thinking about recently is, Facebook as a dating site? The evidence is lots of people meet through facebook and lets be honest, its not any worst than the dating sites? The same sites which say they don’t really know what they are doing…

Anyway the question I pose, is if Facebook will be around in 15years? Their move to split up the mobile app is frustrating but I can imagine a Facebook dating app in the next few years. Along with their photos app (I said it first!).
The next 15 years, I expect it will still be around but I’m expecting the innovators dilemma to come into effect at some point. And even splitting up the experiences into more niches won’t save them.

Dating in the 90’s vs Now, which do you prefer?

Tim continues his run of good quality links on twitter. This time something from Buzzfeed Yellow Youtube channel.

Dating in the 90’s verses now… is a witty look nostalgic trip back to dating in the 90’s (loving the drink reversal btw) Something I see a throw back to in many dating apps. I hear everyday from certain friends, I just want to meet someone like the old days… Well this is a reminder of what it really was like.

I’m not saying things are better now, just different. As I said in my Primeconf talk, the geeks won but it was a pyrrhic victory (not peridoc victory as I thought it was spelled in my talk). People have been left alienated and hurt by the way things have changed. I’m unsure if people will get over it or it will swing back the other way?

Fascinating reading the comments on youtube following the video.

Gareth Ferguson writes…

Virtual dating is for cowards. Nothing says success like meeting a girl somewhere in public, flirt for a lil bit, and get the number. There is no mystery, what you see is what you get. When using the Internet, its common for fat chicks to use old pictures of themselves so they can give the illusion that this is who you are talking with. Where is the confidence in that? Then you get persons who seem to be so interesting online til you meet them in person and its like BORING!!! Give me a real date than a virtual date any day

As you can imagine that caused a massive load of comments… but there are some interesting ones mixed in.

atomic jacob replied with…

it has nothing to do about not having courage, its infact the opposite. women need to stop taking the role of submissive and have the courage or balls go out and get what they want. i admire women who have that sort of courage, and that doesnt make me weak or lacking balls(i liked that term lol)

On balance, I prefer to float between both ways. There is a feeling that a nostalgic look back is waste of time really? And ever so easy, maybe this part of growing old? Sorry things are the way they are, learn to adapt… Change is the only constant.

The fight over dating will rage on, and anyone who manages to get the balance right will make a killing, specially if they don’t manipulate users too…

OkTrend pipes up…

I Hate It

3 Years later, Ok trends (OKCupid’s blog about trends across the Okcupid service) pipes up with a new entry, titled We experiment on human beings. In a cynical  move to get in on the facebook controversy. Maybe they are feeling the heat from Facebook and its enviable rise to take over online dating.  So threaten, they decided to let everyone know they are still around and relevant ? Maybe I’m being too skeptical?

However there are some interesting parts… to this rare and burst of information.

A while ago, we had the genius idea of an app that set up blind dates; we spent a year and a half on it, and it was gone from the app store in six months.

Of course, being geniuses, we chose to celebrate the app’s release by removing all the pictures from OkCupid on launch day. “Love Is Blind Day” on OkCupid—January 15, 2013.

All our site metrics were way down during the “celebration”, for example:

But by comparing Love Is Blind Day to a normal Tuesday, we learned some very interesting things. In those 7 hours without photos:

And it wasn’t that “looks weren’t important” to the users who’d chosen to stick around. When the photos were restored at 4PM, 2,200 people were in the middle of conversations that had started “blind”.

Those conversations melted away. The goodness was gone, in fact worse than gone. It was like we’d turned on the bright lights at the bar at midnight.

Basically, people are exactly as shallow as their technology allows them to be.

I think OKCupid is right on this. The technology drives the way people decide to use it. This is why its critical not to drive people into a gamified  model or cognitively overload them with information.

I also wondered what happened with OKcupid’s blind date app? Not so frank this time about the lack of take up! I’m pretty sure it received a flurry of activity but now no ones actually using it at all. Nice idea OKCupid but your own results prove it, no ones using it and its time it was retired me thinks…

I’ll be interested to see if more stats will be coming out of oktrends in the near future. They took away the paid for dating one and who knows what else they are going to do to

 

Dating feminists

Found via Josh and Zoe on Facebook – Feminist Dating by Emma Jane Unsworth. I would say its a interesting take on what it can be like for a feminist woman dating in 2014.

The comments as you would expect (you only have to look at any of the comments following northern lass writings) are pretty vicious. There are parts I enjoyed and other parts I wasn’t so sure of.

To avoid time-wasters, I recommend sending over this quick questionnaire ahead of a meet: 1. Do you think the 1950s could be described as a golden era for gender relations? 2. Does the idea of a woman earning more money than you bring you out in hives? 3. Mine’s a pint – that OK? Ah, if only it were so simple

Certainly reminds me of the time I went out with a woman in Manchester. I paid for the first round, and she had a pint of beer and myself a cocktail (cosmopolitan). She was ok with it but the guys on the next table were confused. So confused they came up and asked if I had got the drinks around the wrong way!

I have to say Emma’s comments about who pays is a little confusing…

Let’s talk about paying the bill, holding the door open; the kind of old-school chivalry that makes knights of men and princesses of women. Princesses who need rescuing, usually. Now, because it’s not always practical to “rescue them right back”, like in Pretty Woman, this is a potentially perilous area. Is it disempowering to let someone pay the bill if they’re richer and just happen to be a man? Is this not just, you know, socialism? *ducks* All right, all right. Sometimes I do let people pay (hell, sometimes I offer to pay, if I’m feeling flush) but on other occasions I have nearly bankrupted myself for the sake of my pride. Nobody’s perfect.

The lovely women I date, are happy to split the bill and the debate which I tend to have with others (friends and family) just isn’t a issue with modern/feminist women. The decision about if the other person likes you, do not hinge on if he pays or not.

Dating women who identify as modern/feminist is a must for me. Its always been lovely dates and they tend to be the ones I end up being friends with afterwards. Although I have to say opposites sometimes do attract.  Maybe the friction is actually needed?