January 2005 – Cubicgarden.com…

Ravensbourne’s Copyright vs Community videos on Archive.org

I have finally put the copyright vs community videos from May 2004 on Archive.org under a creative commons licence. These go with the audio versions I added a while. I have to say a big sorry to Fravia because our 2nd DV Cam kept auto switching off because we were recording over firewire not on to DV Tape. The rest of the Videos are not effected because we were able to change the camera placements after Fravia's talk. I'm hoping to upload his first lecture in 2003 to make up for this mistake. Anyway, apologies over here are the videos which as of 0120 GMT are not available but
Verification and derivations have been completed. Now waiting for a curator to approve the recordings.

Copyright vs Community: with Fravia
Copyright vs Community: in the age of computer networks by Richard M Stallman
Copyright vs Community: with Cory Doctorow

While searching around, I also found Tom's notes on the same lectures. The certainly complete, corydoctorow and richardstallman in plain text.
This also serves as a very good time to remind myself to change the cubicgarden.com/copyright site.

Update about Cory Doctorow's lecture video. I sent a email to Cory a while ago when I first posted the videos up, and just had a look at the video and saw the batting average is at 34.11% with 411 downloads since 4 days ago. So I had a look around the blogosphere and saw who was talking about it. Results from blogdigger by link, Technorati by links to the BoingBoing post. Some highlights of what I've found. Corante's Donna Wentworth picked up on it for Copyfight, which I read all the time but somehow missed. Weird how people are just copying the text directly, keep seeing thanks Ian! which freaks me out a little… shame its not linking directly to this post…

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iTunes to ipaq

I'm still not very happy with using iTunes but with the DAAP support and Winamp coming to a slow end I'm forced to use it. I thought it was pretty cool that the xbox media centre supported DAAP, but hot on the heals of that comes WiFiTunes which is still in alpha but is GPL'ed. Yes it doesnt support AAC but I would never encode my stuff as AAC, but I can understand why this would put some people off who have whole playlists of AAC's. Its a real shame I cant use it at work because the Wifi is locked down. Oh link came from pocketpcthoughts. I did some experimenting in the office today with Toms Mac laptop, and it works quite well. Theres little controls, so once its playing its playing and so you cant jump around the music file yet! But it will play all the playlists no problem (even recently played and top rated) and the delay in connecting is small, like 5secs maximum over 802.11b. One thing we did discover, is the wifitunes doesnt seem to register as a user, so if you shutdown itunes you dont get the usual prompt asking if you want to boot other users off. Still very usable for a alpha.

It certainly beats using a streaming server setup to listen to music or podcasts in the bathroom without copying the file to SD first. Talking of which, My house is fully FM tuned using the iTrip style FM Transmiters which I believe are still not available in the UK. My main problem is the signal doesnt reach past the kitchen which is a bit of a pain. Anyway, I hooked it all up so I can now listen to something on the FM signal and choose another thing in the living room. Real multiple room audio, so Sarah can listen to the hits of the 80's in the bedroom or/and kitchen while I enjoy the sounds of Armin Van Buuren. 88.5 if you ever go past my house and are interested in what we may be liistening to…

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High Definition and Ultra Definition

I went to the Video Forum 2005 exhibition yesterday, it was pretty boring but I did catch the BBC HD presentation which gave me a little to think about.

The first point which hit was the thought of using digital still cameras to create HDTV clips. Let me explain, my digital camera creates pictures of 4.33 megapixels which is about 2272 x 1704. Other resolutions bellow that are 2048 x 1536, 1600 x 1200, 1280 x 960, 1024 x 768 and of course 640 x 480. The first two (2272 x 1704 and 2048 x 1536) could easily beat the highest resolution of HDTV which is 1920 x 1200 progressive. So all you need to do is take 25 pictures or even 50 pictures of the scene at these resolutions and crop or reszie them to 1920 x 1200 then join them together at 25/50 frames a second to create the clip. Only 2 major problems, most digital cameras dont have native support for the 16:9 widescreen format we enjoy in the UK and also the biggest problem. Its going to be hell taking 25 or even 50 shots a second to create a short clip. At these resolutions a attached CF card would quickly fill up and you would need some way to get the information off quickly. Anyway this method is ideal for things that dont move much aka skies and landscapes (timelapse clips). Obviously this is not new to others
, who already do HDTV quality versions. The other thing I was thinking was that you could easily achive the lower quality HDTV resolutions (480p/i and 720p/i) on a digital camera and even on a good mobile phone! My Sanyo's 1.33mpx camera is able to do 1280 x 960. Yes the CCD and lens is bad but its possible with enough time and lots of editing.
By the way Andy King also stressed the need for real digital surround sound in HDTV recordings, which doesnt seem to bother alot of the boradcasters at the moment.

And I was also alerted to the successor to HDTV which is called UHDV. Here is the camera shot I took after the presentation by Andy King from BBC HD. Let me highlight the specs, if you dont want to look at the picture.
7680 x 4320 resolution, it will be 16 times higher than HDTV and creates a 32 mega pixel image for each frame! Its also meant to run at 60 frames a second! They also havent forgotten the surround sound. Shifting to a 22.2 Surround Sound setup. Which is 10 at ear level (suspect this will be the new rumoured Dolby 10.1 or 12.1 standard), 9 above and 3 below ear level plus 2 subs.

If you do the maths, all those sound channels and image pixels add up to a massive amount of data.

In test, an 18-minute UHDV video consumed 3.5TBs of storage (equivalent to about 750 DVD’s). The data was transmitted over 16 channels at a total rate of 24 Gb/s per second, thousands of times faster than a typical DSL connection.

By the way its been talked about on slashdot twice now.

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Ravensbourne’s Copyright vs Community videos on Archive.org

Copyright vs Community: with Fravia
Copyright vs Community: in the age of computer networks by Richard M Stallman
Copyright vs Community: with Cory Doctorow

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RSS 1.1 draft available now

As mentioned in few places including Sam Ruby, Miscoranda and Cafe con Leche. There is a draft version of RSS 1.1 available on a creative commons licence. The official specification is a bugfix rather than a real change. My own feelings are the same as Elliotte except of course the very end…

As if RSS 0.9, 0.91, 0.92, 1.0, and 2.0 weren't enough to deal with, now there's RSS 1.1. I think the authors are missing the forest for the trees here. While there are some small improvements in RSS 1.1 relative to RSS 1.0 (which is a completely different beast than RSS 0.9x and RSS 2.0), they are simply not outweighed by the cost of expanding market confusion and incompatibility. Oh well, maybe if we're lucky, this will be the straw that breaks the camel's back, and convinces the world to just move forwad to ATOM leaving RSS in the dustbin of history where it belongs.

Oh thers already a RSS Feed validator and RSS 1.0 to 1.1 converter.

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iPodder 2.0 beta vs blogmatrix

Via Adam Curry. There is a new version of iPodder lemon edition. Its in beta but looks like a massive improvement on the old classic ipodder 1.14. There are some screenshots of the windows and mac versions here. I have downloaded the beta which is a 10.5 meg by the way… I dont know if I will try it out because I have recently switched over to using blogmatrix jager for both my rss reading and podcasting. I was tempted with Sparks! too but I installed it at work and got fed up with the lack of rss reading at the time. Now maybe a good time to upgrade?

Anyway, I may see what new in ipodder 2.0 and compare the features with Jager, if Jager wins I'll donate some money for sure, specially if the delicious linkage is going to do something like AmphetaRate, smartmobs sums it up. Maybe this could kill Digg which I like but dont have time to mess with, plus I'm using del.icio.us all the time now, so I'm glad to hear blogmatrix are using del.icio.us. Talking of Blogmatrix heres somethings which i'm crying out for in rss readers generally.

Ok subscriptions! What on earth are developers thinking about? Yes you can import and export OPML 1.1 great but what about synchronisation? Jager does sync subscriptions but you only have 2 options. FTP and bloglines. I dont have a FTP server running and really really dont want to go down that route just to keep my ipaq, laptop plus workstation at home and work all sync'ed but it looks like I may have to. The other option of using bloglines is good and I'm at the moment trying to remember my password for my old bloglines account. I really dont want to loose the cubicgarden username. Anyway back to jager, please please include a webdav option so anyone with a mac and idisk can use that for storage of opml. Another thing which my pocketRSS and RSSOwl do which I have not yet found is a real subscription method. All my OPML is online and I usually add RSS feeds to the OPML directly using Webdav or locally then get pocketRSS to update the subscription which pulls in all the new RSS feeds without effecting the others already in place. This also works in RSSOWL if you set it up correctly however there thinking of removing the feature in favour of the jager ideas. Updating the OPML in Jager seems to involve unsubscribing to all the feeds which is easy but then dragging the OPML back in again. Yuk!
Another ignoying thing for me, is there any podcast software which supports RSS 1.0 enclosures? I kinda of expect with Danny Ayers post it would start to happen.

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The service at the wireless point

I was listening to Dana Blankenhorn on The Impacts of Persistent Distributed IT at Accelerating Change. He suggests that we do not have a platform for this decade and that wireless (wimax and wifi) could be it. He states the simple but actually quite obvious fact that we use wireless to access the internet. So everyone is cramming the pipe beyond the access point and not using the actual wireless in ways we are only just starting to see.

And honestly it all makes sense. Wireless has effective bandwidth from 3meg (802.11b) to 100meg (WiMax 802.16). Why not use the wireless point as a platform? Dana suggests Linux is the key for this and he's not wrong. For example, I saw this linksys wireless router ages ago which can be hacked to put linux on it. Yes thats great but wheres the use in just having linux on it? Yes I know you could install anything you like on it but besides a webserver I've seen little else. Till a while ago when the Xlink guys released Xlink Kai station for the WRT54G. Which means you can route traffic for playing multiple player games on the free xlink network with just a xbox and one of these. (yes i have talked about it before, but highlighting whats possible when you think about wireless as a platform).
Yes limited example but a interesting none the less. I would like to see zeroconf aka rendezvous better known as multicast dns services happening at the wireless level. I mean its ideal because the automatic discovery nature makes roaming around wireless points a joy. And before I go, lets not limit wireless to one point. With Mesh networking it should be simple to extend the range and the users to the service. Lets also not forget machine to machine services would benefit from mesh technologies.

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Windows 2000 reinstall list

Ok I didnt give up, I just got a point where I had to make a decision. Yep thats right, I'm back to using Windows on my main workstation. Its dual bootable with Hard drive installed Knoppix /images/emoticons/laugh.gif ebian) but honestly its pretty messed up and almost unrecoverable. Anyway, I decided that I didnt want to go back to Windows XP Pro just yet so installed a old version of Windows 2000. And spent the next few days installing this huge list… Inspired by Bill de Hora

Zone Alarm
Windows 2000 Service Pack 4
Windows 2000 updates
DirectX 9b
Tons of Hardware Drivers
Java 1.42_06 (was tempted to install 1.5)
AVG
PSI
Firefox
Thunderbird
Wbloggar
BlogMatrix Jager
iTunes
Winrar
Azureus
FFmpeg
VLC
ActiveSync
Audacity
Quicktime
GIMP
DVD Shrink
DVD Decrypter
Mpeg2Schnitt
Windows Mediaplayer
DrDivx
Audioscrobbler plugin for iTunes
Irfanview
Nero
CCXstream
Skype
KeePass
Partition Magic
Acrobat Reader
Xlink Kai Evolution
Ad Aware
Open Office
Xmpeg
Inkscape
XMLSpy
Putty
WinSCP
Resin
Smart FTP

What I'll be installing soon…
Icecast server
Zoe
Textpad or Uedit
Opera
Winamp
Mozilla SVG build
SDP
Matroska Pack
Atomix Mp3 or Virtual DJ
BS player
Blogwave
Spike
VNC
Remote Desktop server/client

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The Evolving Personalized Information Construct

Its back again, freaky Epic future. Just in case you missed it before, its about the future of news media and is a look back from 2014 where the New York Times has gone offline and Google is the number one news provider. All presented in a Museum kiosk style.

But in addition to my post last time. This weeks show web talk show has a detailed discussion around the ideas in the flash movie, as well as the audio of the movie. Well worth the 43mins of listening. Links to the Windows and Real Streams as well as Mp3 download.

Even though the movie is a work of fiction, its actually very freaky and not that far fetched. I mean a place where every participates is something the internet community has been pushing for quite a while. However the devil is in the detail, participating should always be something you choose to do, not just automaticly pushed into. Some interesting points in the movie, which I wanted to talk about more.

Googlezon finally checkmates Microsoft with features the software giant cannot match. Using a new algorithm, Googlezon�s computers construct news stories dynamically, stripping sentences and facts from all content sources and recombining them. The computer writes a news story for every user.

Even though this is very hard to imagine in practice, I can see how this is possible if were expecting even more structure news content. The set of technologies which help make this ver possible is XPointer, Xlink and Xbase. With Xpointer for example, it would be easy to pull paragraphs of a certain criteria out of a xml stream and recombine them into something more interesting, with a different slant or even out of context. Talk about disruptive technology?

2006 � Google combines all of its services – TiVo, Blogger, GMail, GoogleNews and all of its searches into the Google Grid, a universal platform that provides a functionally limitless amount of storage space and bandwidth to store and share media of all kinds. Always online, accessible from anywhere. Each user selects her own level of privacy. She can store her content securely on the Google Grid, or publish it for all to see. It has never been easier for anyone, everyone to create as well as consume media.

Dont even need to go into depth with this one, just look at what Gmail has done to webmail. There were lots of concerns for privicy but it seems google have got away with it. Blogger is another stratagic placeholder for the googlegrid. Microsoft are really playing catchup just launching msnspaces recently.

The �Evolving Personalized Information Construct� is the system by which our sprawling, chaotic mediascape is filtered, ordered and delivered. Everyone contributes now � from blog entries, to phone-cam images, to video reports, to full investigations. Many people get paid too � a tiny cut of Googlezon�s immense advertising revenue, proportional to the popularity of their contributions.

Amazon and Google have been in the micro advertising game for so long now, people actually make a ok amount of money off google and amazon advertising. Honestly they may have saved the online advertising world back in 2001 with there simple and effective adsense and amazon associates thing.

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At long last, a new style for the garden…

Just incase your one of the 50% who read cubicgarden.com through RSS only, you might have missed the style and layout change of cubicgarden.com. I've adopted the popular Asual theme and tweaked it into something more tasty for myself. As I write this, I am not finished yet. I need change the fonts and the sizes to fit with the cheq background. I'm also planning print and presentation stylesheets for myself, so I can easily do a presentation of an idea from my own blog entries. I'm hoping to push out a stylesheet switcher for those who do not use Firefox or Opera browser. So at least you can change the background to something more readable (sorry I have excellent 20/20 vision and can read off the cheq without a problem). This also gives me a chance to get much more creative with CSS and maybe play with Aural stylesheets which should work in Opera 8? Talking of which, its interesting Opera is following Apple by trying to win over the education market first.

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Some new manifestos….

A couple of manifestos which I've been reading recently…

From the gaping void blog

[The ChangeThis blurb:] “You've read the Cluetrain, now Hugh MacLeod brings you The Hughtrain. A manifesto on brands, blogs, and the now of advertising and marketing.”

P2P manifesto Via Howard Rheingold's Smartmobs.com

P2P is unstoppable
P2P is positive for companies
P2P is positive for the market
P2P is good for users

All the readers can create their own P2P Manifesto, free to edit this original P2P manifesto.

The idea is to then collect on the blog all the different P2P Manifesto's releases, to create a good knowledge base point about P2P issues.

Howard Rheingold's own Mobile and Open: A Manifesto

Only a cockeyed optimist would forecast an open, user-driven, entrepreneurial future for the mobile Internet. This should not prevent us from trying, however. Sometimes, envisioning the way things ought to be can inspire people to work at making it that way. That's what manifestos are for.

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Social software silos

Tim Idenifies the major problem with social software silos.

One thing that interests me in terms of socialsoftware is the fact that there are many sites offering social applications (different services rather than duplication) and it struck me that it would be really cool to have a sort of 'meta-social'software' service, that would aggregate all your social presence on the web into one place. That way you could take your blog, del.icio.us bookmarks, IM accounts, flickr photos, friendster profile, url and email (along with any other personal data) and make it accessible all in one place, meaning you only have to give out one userID to people, which would allow access to all these things.
Microsoft's solution is a great effort in that it tries to integrate all these services, but the fact that you have to buy in to using the same product for everything concerns me slightly; – it would be nice if integration was possible over multiple services. This should be possible with something like RSS, but to my knowledge has not yet been done. (Presulably a level of cooperation between teh providers of social web services would be needed, and since not all of these services are open source, this is probably fairly unlikely.)

Some thoughts on the issue myself, first I saw some information about LID – lightweight identity and I've been thinking about the whole issue myself. Recently I adopted the use of Keepass which is a open source light weight password manager. To have pretty much all my internet and computer passwords in an advanced 256bit encrypted, twofish algorithm database, makes you think twice about personal information. I mean for example I'm playing with Microsoft Wallop, using flickr for my public domain photos, relaying music taste to audioscobbler and busy weaving bookmarks and metadata for del.icio.us. But each one bar audioscrobbler I would say are pretty much deadend when it comes to getting personal information out. Not only that but what about all the other information which is generated from mass aggregation? Would be good to share that information with the people actually creating it wouldnt it? By the way I have not heard Doug Kay talk about Attention XML for ages now and digital identity was discussed by the gillmor gang a while ago. The reality of digital identity raises its head when thinking about social software, shame none of them will even take my foaf profile? Not to say that is the ultimate aim of digital identity and interopable social software.

Miles dropped me and Tim a email pointing towards the new Technorati Tags. And honestly I'm pretty impressed with the tag feature, I just wish there was a meta standard for blogging which would beat using the rel attribute in a link. The better default option of using the categories of blog entries is actually quite a good idea because it requires no extra effort from the blogger and its retro active, which gives technorati lots of data to analyse, if they have not done so already. Anyway to celebrate the technorati's step up in the aggregation market here's a couple of good examples.

Technorati ipaq tag | Bill Gates | Socialsoftware | Hacking | Xbox | Silicon | Flickr | xbmc. Now if only we could get this in xml?

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podcasting on mobile devices

[11:41:08] miles> Saw some interesting stuff recently on podcasting and 3G phones
[11:41:17] myself> oh yeah?
[11:42:41] myself> i saw there is a smartphone ipodder client now – http://www.ipodder.org/directory/4/ipodderSoftware. but directory is messed up so i cant see the url
[11:43:35] miles> What the “What is?” – um, yes. Forget whose blog it was. Suggesting that podcasting might make sense with a 3G phone. Imagine a service that would download your podcasts for you, allowing you to retrieve them conveniently with your phone or other digital gadgets – not using something like iPodder: the service provider handles all of that work. You get the content you want all in one place.
[11:44:03] miles> A sort of podcast aggregator
[11:44:05] myself> humm now thats interesting
[11:44:18] myself> found it by the way – http://www.equin.co.uk/ipoddersp/
[11:44:32] miles> It makes podcasts more viable, too, because the podcasters wouldn't get soaked for bandwidth
[11:44:53] myself> yeah and orange and the like will enjoy being in the loop
[11:44:53] miles> Cool!
[11:45:13] myself> i've not used pocketrss2 with 3g yet
[11:45:20] myself> but that would work too
[11:45:27] miles> Exactly – they can make money off it, and profile their customers' tastes too
[11:45:41] myself> ah now thats true
[11:47:59] miles> http://archive.scripting.com/2005/01/11#podcastingMayBeTheirKillerApp
[11:48:05] miles> That was it, I think
[11:50:17] miles> It's because the American low-end telephony approach isn't shiny enough – but this would work better for a 3G service than a low-end GPRS phone. Plus you could do more with a modern terminal
[11:51:45] myself> yes, this handset i'm using has streaming and very tightly intergrated mediaplayer

[11:52:24] miles> Spot on. If it had MP3/OGG streaming support it would be perfect /images/emoticons/happy.gif

So I go off and try and test downloading and streaming content on my phone. The results are not good. First finding a nice easy to type feed. http://www.di.fm will do. Ok great, page will not load on my phone correctly. Try http://www.shoutcast.com. Not much better, so i resort to typing in the direct url. Works but does not know what a *.pls or *.m3u file is Unsupported content type. Ok so I try going to the direct mp3 file. I get this error – HTTP Error: 413 Request too large. I think I'm going about it all the wrong way, maybe the media needs to be embeded into a page or be in a special format. So I go to the Orange world home page and check out the film clips in the 3g highlights section. As expected there is an option to download and to stream. With both, it swiches to the mediaplayer and asks to download or prepares the stream. Have to say the stream is good, only 5 secs wait before it started playing. Hummmm, so I need to look at what there using in that wap page to launch the mediaplayer. The link to stream is http://wap.orange.co.uk/downloads/index.wml?rm=buy&id=9937media_id=20013&version=gp80s&sid98bddc0e8231 and the download is http://wap.orange.co.uk/downloads/index.wml?rm=buy&id=9937media_id=20013&version=gp94&sid98bddc0e8231, but I think you need to be on there connection for it to work?

Anyway the other thing I wanted to point at was the link to ipodderSP I sent to miles about a podcasting client on the smartphone. I gave up my SPV to my wife so I just missed out, but wow ipodderSP looks like just the job. For now, i'm quite happy listening to podcasts on my ipaq than anything else but i'm happy to see even more podcast clients coming to the pocketpc.

more to come….

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More sanyo s750 fun?

I've been doing my research on the 3g forum just recently. Some things of interest.

From Frazzel

The video calling is good as it lets you play back a video to someone your talking to also while on hold you will see windmills and hear some chillout music. Very different!

Not yet checked this out because everyone I know on 3g is using 3 (the company). I think I may know one person on Vodafone Live 3g but no one on Orange 3g. Hey talking of which is it actually possible to do cross network video calls yet? Or do we have to go through the whole interop thing for the 4th time now?

About those Bluetooth problems I was having, well I got them still and Jonstatt sums up the problem. The bluetooth implementation is nowhere near as good as Sony Ericsson. You can only have one bluetooth profile selected at a time whereas the Sony will auto select the right one.. I tried the sync option as described here but decided to just export vcards out of outlook then copy them to the sd card. When in the s750, it will let you import them with no problems. It seems generally people are sending back there sanyo phones which I may do if I can not setup bluetooth dialup within the next week. There is some light however, some people have got it working with the ipaq, mac, a toshiba laptop and even a pc. I got a feeling the last two are pre service pack 2 pc's and I'm going to make a long call to orange about my 3g ipaq dialup connection!

Its 4am, and I've finally got the ipaq to dialup GPRS and 3G over Bluetooth with the Sanyo S750! Actually this is now the 6th time i've done it. Whats the settings I'm using? First thing I've pared the two using the headset method described here. Then I'm using *99# to dialup orange and no modem string of any kind. Now to be fair, I did once get the dialup to work with the string at+cgdcont=1,”IP”,”orangeinternet” but not consistently like the no string option. I'm now currently trying to work out why it didnt work before. Other things I noticed, I always have to dialup via the ipaq bluetooth manager otherwise it never works no matter what i do. The baud rate seems to work best on 57600 rather than 115200 and wait for dialtone slows the connection process down alot. I've also just been playing a little more and found +cgdcont=1,”IP”,”orangeinternet” works, but not as well as no extra modem commands. I really need to post this on the 3g forum soon.

I was trying to test the speed of the 3g connection and I can not find one tester which doesnt use javascript of java to complete the test. I really want to know what kind of speeds are possible using this 3g connection now. Which also reminds me to check to see if I get 50meg of 3G data too? By the way, if your interested in the quality of the 1.3 megapix camera check out these two great shots. Yep he's a lady killer…

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Future conference choices

Which one would you go to? and of course, how would you justify it?

Doors of perception 8 in New Delhi, India – 19-26 March 2005
O'Reilly's Emerging Technology conference in San Diego, America – 14-17 March 2005
SVG Open 2005 in Enschede, Netherlands – 15-19 August 2005
The World Wide Web conference 2005 in Chiba, Japan – 10-14 May 2005
XTech 2005 (use to be XML Europe) in Amsterdam, Netherlands – 25-27 May 2005

Well if I can finally find time to write my SVG paper before the looming deadline of Feb 1st 2005, I would get a huge discount into SVG open 2005. (By the way, my new Sanyo S750 plays SVG). I was planning on a presentation on the Art and Design, Data Connection or Evangelism & Specs tracks. Even if I miss out on the paper call, I'm still going to create some kind of promotional animation showing off SVG at its best and hopefully projected on to the white walls of the university. Back to the subject, if worst comes to worst I'm going to pay for the conference because its so close, flights and sleeping arrangements will be cheap and its an excuse to go back to the netherlands again.

Update, thanks to Joel. I'm going to submit a paper to XTECH 2005 on behalf of BBC World Service about RSS. My main push will be about publishing RSS in 35 different languages and then how were publishing extra metadata to help build a better picture of the content. I'll also touch on how were able to service 3 different types of end points with the same content. Should make an interesting but challenging talk for those involved in the xml world. I wish BBC News lots of success with there paper, and honestly think if both papers are accepted this would be great for the BBC. You only have to look at the line up for Emerging technology to see how diverse and forward looking the BBC is.

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