Its a little old but still pretty good. Good to hear Sam mention Chemistry isn’t quantifiable… But the Voxpops certainly make it clear most people still believe you can only get quality from a paid dating site.
When I first read the post, the pros cons dating man pays coupons from Single Black Male, I honestly thought… you got to be s*itty me!
But Streetz makes some good points through out
Women, if you have a good guy treating you right, or a potential good dude who wants to spend time with you and treat you to dates, don’t judge him on how he gets it done. Focus on the experience itself. Some of the same people creating these standards of dating are the same ones who spend Friday night curled up with their laptops and copies of 50 Shades of Grey, listening to the latest Adele CD with no type of male companionship on the horizon. Given the choices, I would say the dude with the coupon would be a healthier alternative.
Agreed don’t judge on the payment… This is another reason why I think going dutch makes so much more sense that you can imagine.
In the end, I don’t think it’s wrong for a man to pay for a date with a coupon, especially if he is paying for the entire date! I would just caution against the tact used in applying that coupon on a date. No matter how much a woman would say that it was cool, I would have a feeling that some type of clowning would ensue either there, down the line, or to her homegirls. You don’t want to damage your brand, but you don’t want to front either
Paying for the whole date? Why put that pressure on yourself? Keep money out of the decision process, just split the bill…
Currently (19:27 on 18/3/2014) 1,556 votes have been received
|Yes. The man should always pay – chivalry’s not dead yet!||125 votes (25%)|
|Yes. The correct etiquette is the man offers, the woman says “let’s go Dutch”, the man says no and pays.||131 votes (26%)|
|Yes. But only if he earns more than his date.||14 votes (3%)|
|No. It should be split equally.||136 votes (27%)|
|No. The person who invited the other should pay.||57 votes (11%)|
|No. In the modern world, the woman should pay.||6 votes (1%)|
|Don’t care either way.||37 votes (7%)|
|Yes. The man should always pay – chivalry’s not dead yet!||222 votes (21%)|
|Yes. The correct etiquette is the man offers, the woman says “let’s go Dutch”, the man says no and pays.||371 votes (35%)|
|Yes. But only if he earns more than his date.||22 votes (2%)|
|No. It should be split equally.||251 votes (24%)|
|No. The person who invited the other should pay.||132 votes (13%)|
|No. In the modern world, the woman should pay.||3 votes (0%)|
|Don’t care either way.||49 votes (5%)|
Seriously! I wonder which decade do we live in…?
How to get the guy worries me deeply… Anyone who says
…All Without The Risk Of Rejection…
Is frankly chatting out there ass. Rejection is a normal part of the process. The important part is learning to get over it and understanding how it effects you.
I’m sure this won’t be the last time I speak about Matthew Hussey…
First thing… Good on Cracked for doing this.
I figured any profile with photos of a beautiful woman would get a few messages from men whose boners were willing to overlook her personality. The captions on her photos were just as draped in red flags as her profile was, so there’s no way they were totally clueless as to how awful she is, but sure, I figured, maybe she’d get a couple of messages a day from people with especially low reading comprehension.
She got 150 messages in 24 hours.
With my social scientist hat on (not really, but I wish I did have one) this shows what a large portion of the online dating market is like. Think i’m joking? Look at the popularity of Tinder and the recently redesign of the local feature in Okcupid’s own app.
All of the messages she gets is seriously screwed up. They are well worth reading for entertainment value alone. But every time I read them I can’t help but hold my head in my hands!
Seriously men of Okcupid.com grow some balls, what the hell are you doing messaging this woman!!!!! She sounds like a bunny boiler… And even worst how can you contact someone so awful after she makes it so clear shes not interested. Worst still wants to do damage to you!
My faith in man kind is on the ropes (of course I’m only joking)
After my blog when I mentioned the programme where the Japanese were not having babies. Pete Aka @binaryape wrote a tweet to me a while back related to who pays on the first date…. Which you can see is related to the Japanese crisis in the lack of babies.
@cubicgarden You might be interested in this (Japanese perspectives on first date meal costs) http://www.tofugu.com/2013/10/25/should-men-or-women-be-paying-for-a-date/
Thanks Pete the reading was very educational.
In Japan, many people still believe that men paying for women is point of good manners and Koichi talked about this in What It’s Like A Dating a Japanese Guy as well. In fact, some guys even feel insulted, or that their pride was just given a ‘low-blow’, if a woman insists that she should pay for herself. This is standard dating-conduct for men in Japan. So, if you are a non-Japanese girl out on your first date with a Japanese guy, insisting to pay your half may be more hurtful than helpful to his pride.
But wait a minute! This has been changing quite a lot actually, especially amongst the newer generation of couples. Nowadays, many men wish more women would help pay for the date tab. It’s also more common for men to ask women to contribute somewhere between 20-30%. If at no point does the woman offer to pay for something, then the man may actually be lead to believe that she is not a generous or thoughtful person!
The whole thing is well worth reading as it goes back and forth with many examples from different cultures including the UK and China. I especially like the writers way of settling the bill with a game…
I had an ex-boyfriend who suggested that we decide who pays the bill by playing rock-paper-scissors. I accepted and from there on out we always decided that way. I found it pretty fair and kind of fun, too
First dates are tough. You’re trying to make a good impression on someone, but you’re also trying to read the person you’re with and see if they’re worth your time. Dating may not be an exact science, but that doesn’t mean we can’t use a little science to our advantage during that first interaction.
Once again, anyone who says its no big deal obviously has no idea what there on about, or hasn’t been dating in the last decade. Lifehacker has your back…
Here’s what you need to know.
A perfect first date is different for everyone, but you can guess that anyone will want solid conversation skills and a good first impression. Beyond that, though, things start to get complicated. Statistics help, but to really craft that perfect first date you need to know exactly how to handle yourself. This is where that science comes in. A lot of the relationship research out there is pretty useless (with riveting studies about how an unpopular name affects your dating success or women find men more attractive when another woman smiles at them), but we went out to find some of the more useful studies to help us craft that perfect first date. Here are the more useful tips we found.
Without ruining the article it boils down to…
- Keep the Conversation Interesting (and Risky)
Absolutely…! This is the part of the date I kinda of enjoy somewhat. Maybe another reason why I quite like speed dating? You start with the basic stuff and before long your in risky territory pouring over past experiences. Its slightly cathartic in nature.
- Use the “Right” Amount of Eye Contact
The right amount? Well I tend to look at people mouths because I’m 25% lip reading and 75% listening. But I do tend to look around the face. I agree the right amount of eye contact is important, no one wants to be eyeballed for long periods of time, specially on a date.
- Watch for Mimicry (But Don’t Go Overboard)
Ok this is something talked to death about in certain books. Its also called mirroring and its go to hear the downsides to mirroring as well as the good. I know certain people who mirror too much and it comes across as weird. No generally I don’t mirror much but I’m conscious of mirroring.
- Mind Your Body Language
Another key one. I don’t generally make a lot of fast or close moves because I don’t want them to feel uncomfortable around me. I’m also not the kind of guy who gets super close at the very start. I know some people will sit side by side instead of ahead from the other. It seems cute but I think its too much.
- Be direct with plans
Although I like the idea of this one, I’m not so certain its a good idea. That extra pressure at the end of a date seems like a bad idea, I mean who wants to go home thinking about how they were pressured into a 2nd date?
Generally the advice is good and the links are excellent…. Good work Lifehacker
A few months down the line, it hasn’t worked out with Mr Facestalk and I. Sadly it seems our paths are not aligned and our future selves wanted different stuff. Rather than crying onto my laptop, which I’ve done in the past – straight onto the trackpad, sending the mouse on an independent clicking frenzy powered by nothing but my salty misery. No, I can’t afford to replace that again. So I’ll simply turn to the wise words uttered by the oracles that are Orbital in their 1990s dance classic Satan: “It’s better to regret something you have done, than something you haven’t” How deep is that for a 90s rave tune?!
Deep enough I would say. The problem Northen Lass has besides the wicked tunes (don’t ever knock rave) is this…
Dating becomes less about getting to know one person properly, and more about dating the shit out of a 40-mile radius of your postcode, resulting in serial daters, on sites for years in a continuous state of “BUT WHAT ABOUT THE NEXT ONE?!”. It may not have been why they initially signed up, but the overwhelming urge to act like a kid in a sweetshop prevails and the paradox of choice sets in.
And just how do you choose who to date? How do you filter out those not suitable, ending up with your dream human? You know the one, the one that farts butterflies and rides a unicorn to work? With help from the website’s compatibility robot, it could be easy to discount someone you could really get on with based on some fairly superficial filtering options – and start to develop expectations of the perfect match a little outside the bounds of reality and good old chemistry.
We all go through it, start dating someone who really care for and invest heavily in. Maybe even introduce them to friends and family, you meet there friends and family. Its all looking good. Then… it all goes to pot, something happens and before you know whats hit you, its that awkward conversation about breaking up, and as I once said breaking up is hard to do.
Some think you got to jump back on the horse… I think not, grief comes in 5 stages. Each can blind you from what your trying to do. Aka find a partner who you will love and they will love you.
The moment you see the whole thing as a sweetshop, your not thinking correctly about this. Heck even if you do pick someone, you may end up picking that person for the wrong reasons. There’s been a lot said about rebounding and a lot of it is true.
Chill and take your time, stop rushing and just let things wash over you as interesting experiences…
Another reason for non-subscription online dating, but more to the point. When your ready, go for it.
I do wonder if online dating does contribute to that paradox of choice and illusion of the greener field beyond the gate. Wait didn’t I write a blog post about this? Oh yes…
On the side, I’ll be on BBC Merseyside again with Northern Lass talking about the issue of how much you share with someone your dating at what stage. This may become part of a single black male piece soon.
I’m cursing myself for falling for the stupid mistake of paying for the bill in one of my previous dates in the last few months.
My mistake was paying for the bill in total, something which I don’t usually do.
So what happened?
Well we were having a good time, chatting away and I suggested how about having some food? (because we were in a place where we could switch from drinks to food without moving) she agreed, time had flown by and she was also hungry.
After eating and deciding yes its about time we actually went home, we asked for the bill. Bill comes and I can’t remember exactly what happened but I’m pretty sure I said “Hey no worries I got this one…”
Of course I never really heard from her again. Except shes actually a friend of friends (trying not to give away who it was)
Anyhow months later we bump into each other and I ask her what happened?
The crux seemed to be she wasn’t comfortable with being paid for… Something I can relate to, and something which I usually go out of my way to avoid. What had happened is I thought I’d try paying and seeing what happens, maybe things will turn out different if I listened to thoughts of Ngunan Adamu and others over time.
Well I was right! Her original thoughts of a modern gentleman, was dashed when I picked up the whole bill. And the only person to blame is myself… Yes it was a bit of an experiment on my part but it felt weird for me and I assume felt even weirder for her. Its a shame because although not my usual type of woman, I was certainly interested and would have liked to have gone on a second date…
Moral of this little tale… Should have gone Dutch…!
I listened to Radio 4’s women and mens hour special about online dating. It wasn’t too bad, but it wasn’t great either. Anyhow I kind of got into a discussion/debate with C_T_S to do with her (I would suggest) somewhat unique experience of talking maybe dating a person who was a catfish.
Now to be fair we have a small twitter history of disagreement. But when I put the idea of never paying for online dating sites out there, she responded with…
As a victim of an emotional fraudster on a free website, I’m totally the opposite.
The best dates I had were from paid sites, without question.
Fair enough thats her experience, but I still feel from my experience and others paid for online dating is a bigger con, as the panoroma documentary revealed recently. I do have friends who have met up via match.com and others paid for dating sites but I have many more who met via free dating sites and the likes of Facebook. I also have never had someone catfished me as such. I’ve had some timewasters but generally I’ve spotted the signs of any kind of scamming.
So the question comes into focus…
Is free online dating inherently more prone to catfishers than the paid for dating sites?
On the face of it, it would seem more likely, however it also seems likely that people willing to pay will be more serious about there dating? In my experience this isn’t necessarily true. I’ve been thinking about this and one such reason is because of the focus on time the sites add to the equation. A lot of people pay month by month (wish I could find the survey which talked about this). Knowing in the back of there minds that the month is coming to an end, the mentality could be to speed things along a little more. While on the free dating sites, you can sit back and relax. Take it all in and decide to go full on or not when it suits you.
So theres a slight paradox… Could there be a slight paradox around catfishing on free sites too?
But how do/can you judge sites for their catfishing potential? Of course none of the sites are going to shout about there catfishing…
I guess you could look at the way they monitor their users, usage policies, etc… But this is data which we just don’t have. Its interesting that OKCupid resorts to crowdsourcing. While others seem to resort to alerting the likes of eharmony via the spam/abuse buttons. Looking a little further theres quite a lot of stuff about this catfishing from online dating sites. Reddit has a dedicated OkCupid subreddit, with some very interesting related threads. On the Match.com front theres some stories in the subreddit relationships but not a dedicated subreddit, however theres relevant court cases and views.
I would suggest its still undecided due to the lack of data available…
The big problem with most online dating conclusions and results. I would also include the fact most men are willing to put up with some crazy issues. Maybe someone should do some research how men and women react to being catfished?
So much to research, so little data…
For example if I was to say here’s some tips, would you know what I was talking about?
- Come prepared
- Eliminate pressure
- Don’t expect too much
- Get comfortable
- Remember: desperation isn’t cool
- Focus on developing a relationship
- Respect their time
- Keep in touch
Now knowing me and what I talk about most of the time, you would be forgiven for thinking this is good tips for speed dating or your first date. But actually your wrong! Nope this is taken from 8 Tips For A Successful Networking Coffee Date. But to be fair most of the advice is transferable between your career, self confidence and dating.
Even more to the point is, The Dating Game: The Similarities Between Recruiting and Online Dating.
Recruiting these days seems a lot like online dating. After all, recruiting is performed mainly through online resources like LinkedIn. You check out a profile, maybe a person’s picture, and assess or judge how the candidate writes about him or herself. Does it make sense? Are there spelling errors? Could they be a good match? How would they fit in? I wonder what theyâ€™re like in-person? Are they the same as they portray themselves?
Hmmm, this sounds awfully familiar to me. Ever heard of Match.com, okcupid (personal fave), or eHarmony? Online dating is becoming increasingly popular, and so is sourcing and hiring candidates online from Linkedin.
Absolutely… I rest my case for now.
Oh you got to love Northern Lass 32, always chipping away at the sore parts of online dating but slightly missing the core…
“The Silence” – that cruel tumbleweed blowing around your inbox; when a reply to your message seems to have got lost in the ether. Because no-one is rude enough to just ignore you, right? Even more so after a few messages or even a date?
Ummmmm yes! I won’t count how many times I’ve met a woman, gone on a date and text afterwards to make sure she got home ok. And nothing…! Another text the next day and still nothing… At this point I do wonder if some serial killer is knocking my dates off around the corner from my first date venues.
And thats if you get that far…!
You got the catfish factor or as we use to call them timewasters, as all they want to do is chat online and never go dating. Those who tell ball faced lies about themselves, horrible stereotypes, bad choices with photos and out and out trolls who just want to tell you how your profile sucks… To be honest your maybe off with a empty inbox?
But I guiltily hold my hands up to also not replying from time to time. When I first started online dating I replied to every single person. Before you know it, you are juggling a fair few conversations; some that you know full well are not going to lead to a date. On asking one person I dated how they handled this situation, he simply replied: “I just ignore them.”
After experiencing being ignored a couple of times, it kind of felt that this was just the way it was done. An unwritten code of accepted rudeness that you probably wouldn’t apply in other aspects of your life – unless you were a bit of a turd.
Yes thats pretty much where I have been for a while too. Its painful and rude but its the unwritten rule. You need to remove yourself from the timewasters, lairs and trolls some how. If someone thinks your one of those, then please for the sake of your and there sanity, don’t text, email or tweet over and over again.
Leave it! Its over, get over it, get back on your horse and ride into the sunset with your head up high. You have avoided being exactly what the other person thinks you were. Even more, you avoided being a stalker! Give your self a high five…! Lastly you can relax and watch Dawn Porter‘s piece with a look at the odds of a decent match
Women on average get way more interest than than men, its the way of the world what can you do about it? Nothing so don’t get down about it, keep a positive outlook…head up high!
In Phil’s own words….
“She’s a lovely girl, she ticks a lot of boxes. But I think there’s a little bit of a player side”
POF is blocking hookups based on age difference and message wording, resulting in immediate bans, Intimate Encounters going away, 17% of the time we can pick the exact person you will end up dating, 70% of POF use is via a mobile phone.
Markus says, “Unfortunately about 2% of men started to use POF as more of a hookup site mostly due the the casual nature of cell phone use.”
POF have made systematic changes too… Directly from Markus the founder
1. Any first contact between users that contains sexual references will not be sent. Anyone who tries to get around this rule will be deleted without warning. This rule has actually been in effect since last month and it’s made the site so much better.
2. You can only contact people +/- 14 years of your age. There is no reason for a 50 year old man to contact a 18 year old women. The majority of messages sent outside those age ranges are all about hookups. Anyone who tries to get around this rule will get deleted.
3. Intimate Encounters will go away in the next few months. There are 3.3 Million people who use the site every day, of those there are only 6,041 single women looking for Intimate Encounters. Of those 6,041 women, the ones with hot pictures are mostly men pretending to be women. Intimate Encounters on POF can be summed up as a bunch of horny men talking to a bunch of horny men pretending to be women.
In short the vast majority of people will not be impacted. This is because the vast majority of people are not going around spamming women saying “let’s have sex tonight”. I can’t change POF alone, I need your help to get the word out there that POF is all about relationships!
So I assume with the clean up, POF needs to shout about the change… Shout about it they do, so much than you can see the advert on OKCupid.com, another free online dating site. Weird but I guess it makes sense, OKC is a dating site with a lot of daters on board.
So there’s something I’ve been keeping a little secret… I met Northern Lass 32 from the article which irked me a while ago.
Now we agreed not to blog or write about things (a gentleman never tells) but Northern Lass and myself did get talking about who pays on the first date. Somewhat ironic being on a date. But to be honest there’s nothing new there, have had quite a few dates where we’ve talked about who pays first.
Later, in the guardian Northern Lass writes about our meeting briefly… inspired by meeting me!
The issue of who pays on a first date is a subject close to the heart of Manchester-based blogger Cubicgarden, who wrote a blog about how my first column had irked him. Which in turn irked me a bit right back. So I got in touch with him to see if we could meet up on a non-date and iron out the irks.
Cubicgarden turned out to be a brilliant chap. He’s a human dating Wikipedia, taking great interest in – and blogging about – everything from the technology to the dynamics involved in meeting someone new. His top topic being Who Pays On A First Date? We debated the topic over breakfast at FYG in the Northern Quarter last week. Personally I don’t like to be paid for on a date; it makes me feel uncomfortable, like you are not parting on an even ground.
If Northern Lass 32 says she feels uncomfortable, how many other woman feel the same? Here’s my little 100 person poll again.
Interesting to see the comments…
Surely you just split the bill? I would never expect someone else to pay for me for an entire evening, especially someone who is effectively a total stranger at the start of the evening. I don’t even really understand why “who pays” is a question anymore.
Why are you doing something expensive enough to be worried about who pays? Drinks is the only thing you should be doing on a first date, certainly not dinner. I find the attitude some girls have towards a guy paying a little insulting. This is not 1960 any more – I am no more going to pay for a date than you are likely to stay home all day cooking and cleaning!
You should split unless there’s an agreed second date. I hate that you’re expected to pay, it pisses me off. I avoided meals on a first date anyway, there’s no escape.
Flip a coin, the winner pays (not, note, the loser – get off on a better foooting).
Massive thanks to Northern Lass 32! And I can’t believe its at 670+ comments in just over 12 hours since posting…